Allow me to introduce us: Chidananda, Das Bramchari, Das Adhikari, Indraram Das Brahmachari, Das Brahmachari. We are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. All of us were born within the borders of United States and we became his disciples there in the last two to four years, we were intitiated by him. Shri Agrawal extened an invitation to us to come here. We are not in knowledge what you might wish to do, so we are leaving the meeting up to you, and whatever you proplose we will do it. Hare Krishna!
Great! He was saying that you would like to ask something, so if you have any questions . . .
I can pose one question. I would like to know, can you describe to me what is your conception of absolute truth?
No conception about absolute truth is possible because every conception is bound to be relative. The absolute transcends every conceptualization; you cannot conceive it. You can live it, you can be in it, but no intellectual conception is possible about the absolute. All conceptions are bound to be erroneous because conception, as such, is relative. So I can not say what my conception of the absolute is. I can only say that no conception is possible. The moment you go beyond conceptions, you know the absolute. But even when you have known it, you cannot transform it into a conception.
The so-called religious mind is always conceptualizing, but the really religious man is one who has come to know the boundaries of intelligence, the boundaries of intellect, the boundary of conceptions. The absolute is beyond. Or you can say the beyondness is the absolute.
I am not a philosopher; I deny every type of philosophizing. The truly religious mind is a mind that is not philosophizing about the truth. Philosophizing is a sort of mentation: the mind is working. And through mind, no contact with the absolute is possible. Only when the mind ceases, when thinking ceases, the ego ceases, do you come in contact with it. The absolute is beyond ‘me’, beyond ‘you.’ Where philosophy ends, the absolute begins. Where conceptions end, the absolute begins.
What do you mean by ‘me’ and ‘you’?
These are conceptions, egocentric conceptions. When I say ‘me’ and ‘you’, I mean my mental process and your mental process. Unless these processes cease, we cannot be in contact with the absolute because these processes are the barrier. ‘I’ – as a thinking mind – is the barrier. But if I think of ‘I’ as an existential living unit and not as a thinking mind, then there is no barrier. Then there is no ‘I’ and ‘you’; then the whole existence becomes one.
One ego is ‘I’ and the other ego is ‘you’. The absolute comes only when there is egolessness. ‘I’ cannot conceive of it; ‘I’ can only dissolve in it. You can dissolve in it, but you cannot conceive of it. A drop cannot conceive of the ocean. It can only conceive of a drop. That is its limitation. But a drop can become the ocean, it can drop into it and be one with it. Only then does it come to know the ocean – through becoming, not through thinking. It becomes one with it.
Conceptions are mental, part of language. The mind transforms reality into thoughts. If I love you, there is no ’I’ and there is no ’you’. Only love exists. We are two polarities of it: two extensions of one feeling, two waves of one feeling – coming and going. But when you conceive of love, love becomes a theory, a dead concept. Words, principles, philosophies, doctrines are there, but there is no love. The theory of love is not love any more than the theory of God is God. The word ‘God’ is not God.
I’m not saying whether the Hindu concept of absolute truth is right or wrong. I’m saying that conceptualization, as such, is wrong. We cannot conceive of the absolute; it is inconceivable. The moment one begins to think about it, there are only words. The truth is being lost. The truth can never become a word.
What is your attitude towards the Vedic religion, the Vedanta Sutra?
Religion . . .
What is the purpose of these literatures if not to discuss the nature of the absolute truth?
It is not . . .
The absolute truth then is beyond conceptualizing, then how is it then that these literatures such as the Vedanta Sutra and the Bhagavad Gita present description and definition of the absolute truth?
No one present, no one can present. They all deny, they all deny.
Deny what?
The conceptualization. They all deny conceptualization, and they all propose a living jump into it – not conceiving but a living jump.
And when you say ‘Vedic religion . . .’ The moment one says Vedic religion, Christian, Hindu, Muslim . . . the religion is lost. You cannot name it. Religion is religion, it is neither Vedic nor Christian, nor can it be. Religion is not a sect; it is not sectarian. So when you say, ‘Vedic religion’, you are destroying religion itself.
Veda means knowledge. Veda means all-knowing!
If you say ‘all-knowing’, then the Bible is also the Vedas, then the Koran is the Vedas. Then there is no need to mention a Vedic religion. It becomes absurd, irrelevant. If Veda means knowledge, then what I am saying, if it is knowledge, is a Veda, and what Mohammed is saying becomes a Veda. Then you cannot use ‘Vedic religion’. When you say, ‘Vedic religion’, you mean knowledge as conceived by the Vedas. Then you confine it, a sect is being created. And a sectarian mind is not a religious mind; a sectarian mind is basically irreligious.
A mind must endeavor to know, a mind must come to know. The mind must research and seek. But the moment you accept authority, you deny your own individuality. That is a suicidal act. So once you say ‘Vedic’, you have lost something essential for religion.
You like the Vedas. That is quite another thing. You may love them that is something quite different. You may like the Bible, you may love it, but don’t be bound by it. Don’t make it a bondage, don’t be confined to it, because knowing is such a vast thing. Vedas and more Vedas may come and go, but the mind never ends. Vedas end, but the mind never ends. Knowing is infinite, but the Vedas are not infinite so a person who attaches himself to one particular creed is not a religious person at all.
To me, religion means an attitude of inclusion. There are three attitudes possible. The first is the scientific attitude: a mind that believes in analysis; a mind that believes in objectivity; a mind that believes in laboratories, experiments – not within but without; a mind that is concerned with the without of things.
Then there is the artistic attitude. A person who is not concerned with reality as truth but with reality as feeling, a person who is not concerned with the realization of reality but who is concerned with the expression of it; a participatory attitude toward the real, but devotional – a feeling attitude. Then there is the religious mind. In every way it is different from the scientific mind. It is not analytical; it is subjective.
When you say ‘Vedas’, you become analytical. You have begun to divide religion. Religion is an attitude of synthesis. If you say that all that has been known is the Vedas, then there is no need to mention ‘the Vedic religion’ at all. Then Christ is a Vedic personality, Mohammed is, Confucius is.
Then I am, you are. But that is not what you mean. When you say ‘Vedic’ you have confined yourself to a particular scripture. The moment you mention the name, you have become sectarian. But the sectarian mind is so small that it can never be religious. A religious mind can only be limitless: untethered to anything, not clinging to anything, not confined to anything.
When I say ‘the attitude of a religious mind’, I mean a mind that is subjective, a mind that experiments with reality subjectively. I mean, taking the approach of seeking the within of things, not being concerned with the without. The seeking is subjective, inner. You become concerned with the ultimate, but you move toward it as an individual, not as a member of a sect.
You cannot move toward the ultimate if your attitude is sectarian, because the moment you become a member of a particular sect, your mind is burdened with particular conceptions, authorities, scriptures. Then you are not fresh, then you are not naked, you are not innocent. Your mind has become calculating. You are not ready to receive truth as it is. Rather, on the contrary, you have your own conception of truth to impose on reality. Now the truth must correspond to your scriptures, it must correspond with your conceptions. You are not open.
No, just one moment, I did not say anything about conceptions. I said I am thinking that the truth should correspond with the scriptural conceptions which are not my conceptions.
Are you saying that in the Gita when Lord Krishna says “I am the absolute truth” he is not speaking the truth?
The scriptures are not religious. There is no religious scripture at all. Scriptures cannot be religious.
Really? I have some verses which conflict with that. I would just like to read them. This is the Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 7, Verse 7. Lord Krishna is speaking to Arjuna. He says: “O character of wealth, Dhananjaya, there is no truth superior to me. Everything rests upon me as pearls are strung on a thread.” And here he is speaking of himself subjectively.
Then in the eighth chapter he is speaking of himself objectively. He says: “Think of the supreme person as one who knows everything; who is the oldest; who is the controller, who is smaller than the smallest, the maintainer of everything beyond any material conception, inconceivable and always a person. He is luminous like the sun, beyond this material nature, transcendental.” Now in these verses in the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna, who is a person who is standing before Arjuna, speaking to Arjuna, and saying, “Actually I am the absolute truth and there is no truth superior to me and that everything is under my control and that I am a person.” And these statements of the Bhagavad Gita, which is saying that we can describe what is the absolute truth . . .
No. The very statement says it is inconceivable.
. . . or that the absolute truth is describing himself.
The very statement says it is inconceivable, it is beyond all material conceptions. And the moment you say a person you have conceptualized. And if he says . . .
I am not saying “person.” That inconceivable lord is revealing knowledge to us and his is saying, “I am a person.”
Then he must mean something other than what we mean by person.
But he is not saying, “I mean something else.”
No, no. He is not saying anything at all. He is just saying . . .
Lord Krish is not speaking in the Bhagavad Gita?
I won’t say “Lord Krishna.” That is our conception that he is a lord. And it is our conception that this is a scripture, it is our conception that it is religious, it is our conception that all that is said in it is true. These are our conceptions. And the moment we conceive of a thing as a scripture, then everything becomes authoritatively true, then there is no need to think about it.
What I am saying is this: Truth can be known but cannot be expressed – not even Krishna can express it. And the moment he expresses it, the truth becomes confined to words, and words come to us, not the truth. If I have known the truth, I can try to describe it, but it is never described.
So then what do you do?
I only try to describe the indescribable-ness of it. I only deny the positive formulations. I only try to point out your limitations of knowing, information, scripture, knowledge. And if this much can be pointed out – that our minds are not capable of knowing it – then something is being indicated which is significant. So all that can be done is negative, never positive.
But even a child can know that he has boundaries, so what is the purpose?
No one – not even a child, not even an old man – knows that he has boundaries.
But we all experience boundaries every day . . .
We experience them, and still, we try to conceive the infinite. And we even try to conceive of it through scriptures. Then it becomes absurd. Then it shows that we are not completely aware of our boundaries, the boundaries of our thinking, of our thought. We are not aware of them. And the mind feels satisfied if words can be fed to it and if an illusion of knowledge is created – so I can read the Gita, memorize it, go on continuing to memorize it, and feel that something is being known.
No, nothing is being known. You are just computerizing your mind; you are feeding it with information. The words may have been true on the lips of Krishna, he may have known what he was talking about, but the moment it is said, the truth is not conveyed. Only words are conveyed, and we begin to cling to these words. The words become the basis of all our knowledge.
Words can never be the basis of knowing. One must go into total silence; one must go into total wordlessness.
That is not possible.
If that is not possible, then the absolute truth cannot be known. You will only go on knowing relative conceptions of it.
Actually, everything you are saying is based on your authority. You are speaking form your authority on this matter
How can I speak anything else?
-Osho
From The Eternal Quest, Chapter eleven
Copyright © OSHO International Foundation
You can read the entire book online at the Osho Library.
Many of Osho’s books are available in the U.S. online from Amazon.com and Viha Osho Book Distributors. In India they are available from Amazon.in and Oshoworld.com.
Sat Sangha Salon 
Osho has given a wonderful reply, I wonder what the reaction of the Hare Krishnas was ?
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I am filled up with shadows… shadows…….shadows………and more shadows……………………………..
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Hello. Ya osho has agiven a good reply against all foolishness. But osho says no conception is possible but the truth lies in the atman. So it is not true that you can make no conception. Conception you percieve is wrong but the one who has given the conception is the conception that is krishna. Krishna says in chap 17 that absolute truth is objective of bhakti yoga . Bhakti yoga does not mean surrender. Bhakti yoga is a state of ananta gyana prema . Gyana means the pure intelligence of the atman wgich is brought back after conquering the mind. Chap 6 bg krishna says one who conquers mind reaches paramatman. Reaches means attains to krishnas nature . So krishna is truth. Even in 11 chap krishna says in 2 last verse that by starting bhaktiyoga you enter into the mystries of krishnas knowing by undivided devotional service.
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Hello. Ya osho has agiven a good reply against all foolishness. But osho says no conception is possible but the truth lies in the atman. So it is not true that you can make no conception. Conception you percieve is wrong but the one who has given the conception is the conception that is krishna. Krishna says in chap 17 that absolute truth is objective of bhakti yoga . Bhakti yoga does not mean surrender. Bhakti yoga is a state of ananta gyana prema . Gyana means the pure intelligence of the atman wgich is brought back after conquering the mind. Chap 6 bg krishna says one who conquers mind reaches paramatman. Reaches means attains to krishnas nature . So krishna is truth. Even in 11 chap krishna says in 2 last verse that by starting bhaktiyoga you enter into the mystries of krishnas knowing by undivided devotional service.
So if you want to stqrt understanding krishna first you have to surrender. Thats the first step.
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Ok Varun , please tell me if you have something which is from your experience. Don’t simply give me some borrowed knowledge that you heard or read some where tell me something original which you have.
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This is my experience only and so of all great vaishnavas i am not lying maya is making you think this way
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Doesn’t sound like “your experience” or something “original” sounds like borrowed knowledge simple.
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Reply me.
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Please point out where am i wrong and not just question my authority. No vaishnav in the disciplic succession speaks any thing rubbish .
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I didn’t say you are right or wrong ,I said I fail to see anything original from your side. That’s it.
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Speak something useful.
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Bhai you have something original tell me why are you just showcasing your borrowed knowledge ?
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Osho is right I’m sorry.
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Unity of absolute and relative is the working definition of reality. Nondual nature is your nature. Consequently, Nirvana and Karmic evolution are not only equal, they are identical. This is the basis of the saying “sameness within difference”, though there are several aspects in terms of dealing with the conceptual device relative to various teachings within buddhism.
Arriving at nonduality in terms of everyday ordinary affairs is essential to buddhist practice. Actually, it is the working definition of enlightening being. Enlightening being is the function of awareness. Awareness is your nature. Awareness, your own mind right now, is not created. Seeing reality is activating the mind without dwelling on anything. The only reason this is possible is because your own mind right now is unborn. Mind is one, undifferentiated, selfless, void of identity. It’s you. People aren’t just already enlightened— they’re enlightened mind incarnate.
Real 24/7 meditation practice is seeing through phenomena without denying their characteristics. Taoist alchemy calls this refining the medicines. Buddhism calls this using the sickness to cure the disease. It’s not about meditation, after all. You can take all the provisional entry-level teachings and use them as applications of the real in the midst of the false in broad daylight unbeknownst to anyone.
It’s about using the world to refine the self; using conditions to arrive at essential nature. This cannot be accomplished by quiet sitting alone.
That’s because, reality is already Mind— your mind, right now. Perhaps you are not ready to hear this, but this is the nondual section, after all.
Reality is relative to your mind. As long as your mind is habituated to the view of its separate nature, you will not see essence in everyday affairs. After a long process of self-refinement carried out correctly and effectively in everyday ordiary situations, the self-reifying mental habits that perpetuate the illusion of the separate self-identity as ultimately existent will die off, bit by bit and that much of your primordial potential will be activted as the selfless function of awareness. Using this is selfless adaption, activating the subtle operation of spiritual transformations in the midst of worldly situations.
Nonduality realized all the time is seeing the physical, psychological, psychic, emotional, causal matrix of karmic evolution (Creation) as void of self— because that’s what it is (no different than you). Going along with this, just as it is, knowing it is utter illusion— how could you possibly bring yourself to act on behalf of situations arising from this insane chaos, good, bad or indifferent?
Acceptance of conditions is “going along— not denying characteristics”. Not acting on conditions is “seeing through phenomena”. The sense of nonattachment to outcomes aids in adapting to the inevitable where unavoidable— the ups and downs look just like reality: “perfection is easy for those with no preferences”.
Soon enough, you may come to the working strategy that this malestrom of karmic momentum is just your perception of it. Otherwise, it just doesn’t make ANY sense (to leave it up to the world, and fortunately, you don’t have to). YOU take total responsibility for your sensory perception and mental postures. It doesn’t require doing— just meeting of conditions for what they are— illusion. If you can come to the temporary working realization that phenomena is what reality looks like without having the slightest shred of belief it its ultimate nature, then it might be possible to endeavor to work at adapting to conditions as they present themselves out of a sense of inevitability without clinging to good or bad outcomes. Selflessness is nonattachment to outcomes. There is no moral implication in terms of selflessness— it’s impersonal. That’s mind.
This is actually an entry to the buddha’s teaching of Suchness and carrying out the activation and partaking of the Great Vehicle. This is reality, in fact. Right in front of your nose is this nondual reality 24/7. As such, it is so whether you are aware of it or not. In terms of the point of meditation in the first place, and the fact of reality, it is Mind alone.
The lesser vehicle of personal liberation is a temporary expedient as well …why is this? It’s another lie to trick you into the path, that’s all.
That Suchness is reality is nominally due to the fact that it is neither absolute nor conditional. Both Nirvana and Creation are the same illusion. One is your mind before creation and the other is after. Clinging to one or the other is delusion. Neither absolute stillness nor karmic momentum is the essence of reality unified, present and naturally so, without ever entering creation. This is your nature already.
Even those who experience sudden enlightenment must learn to realize this truth by APPLYING it in the midst of situations seamlessly.
You can begin to see this if you can dismiss your dependent relationships to circumstantial interpretations. Reality doesn’t look any different than delusion when your relationships to circumstances are not dependent on outcomes, good or bad.
Unified with reality all the time is just this awareness of the essential underlying nature of circumstantial process as your own potential.
When you act based on karmic dependence, you change enlightening potential into karmic debt.
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Today I happen to stop by my wife´s grave.
Once upon a time she was a great woman, but now, only nothing remained; I couldn´t locate her anywhere, just bones and dust.
Who is there to find out anything when everything turns out to nothing???…
Once conditions dissolve, Emptiness remains, and cannot be neither conscious nor unconscious, but Empty/Void of all things, Stillness; the timeless Zone….No thinking can aply
I am trying to use the best configurations possible so you can move on and out.
Within the Eternal Void as the Source, illusions as things appear and become possessed by an outside agency which is the mind.
Mind/Body/Soul/Consciousness, and All things that appear, are foreign things which have no reality, are of the nature of illusions, and can be said never to have began… nor can things ever end…and therefore, there is no self in it. Things appearing and disappearing are as shadows vibrating throughout void, feeding on each other., and the self that arises by conditions develops for a time.
The reality is that we are 99%, Void and 1/one%, of mind stuff.
In wanting to discover… you play with illusions.
In wanting to be… you pay with life and death.
In wanting to experience… you play with suffering.
In wanting to BE/Not…you are playing OFF your mind.
This was it, there´s nothing else to be said.
All things must eventually End, and I will be good to GO.
Death will overtake every thinking mind just like the sleep does and one is no more…
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But the illusinons are created by mind. Infact mind shou ld stop. But jeeva is sat cit ananda. And so is krishna. You know when one becomes capable of understanding brahman that is when mind stops then the brahma jyanis give up ego.
But bhakti yogis also conquer the mind but donot give up ego. But use it in transcendal service onto krishna. Gyana aatained in both paths is same but ananda is more in krishna. Both are aspects of truth. Krishna is not material . He is spiritual. And this he is also spiritual not material duality.
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Never thought him to be more stupid than now after reading this.
This rascal do not even belong to any guru parampara , or any vedic authority, why should anyone bother to read him except about his sex formulas…..
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i’m sorry lad but he was an enlighten being, try reading this article again until u understand his point.
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Osho is saying he is his own authority. If you are listening to Osho that means you accepted an authority and now deciding to think that you should be your own authority is against the very authority that you are accepting.
And please do figure out that you are never free from accepting an authoiruty at any stage of your life since birth. And you can never say that whtever Osho speaks / frames is not based on any authority and you cannot say that all his thoughts/ideas are solely his and not derived/inspired from anything else.
The very meaning of Vedas is apaurusheya, not Human made.
Why we should not and cannot accept human made conclusions is because –
We have four kinds of defects known as
1. To commit erros, 2. Cheating propensity , 3. To be illusioned 4. Defective senses.
Osho may be using great jugglery of words ,may be an expert speaker, but words does not make truth. Truth is truth irrespective of the words. You will never know to which extent he is error free, illusion free, defective free in his teachings, philosophies unless you take to a superior authority and analyze from the higher vision.
If you read the logic , analysis and the depth of concepts explained in the vedas by great Acharyas you will realize how faulty Osho is at many of his concepts at the very beginning stage itself and how defective is his teachings in comprehending the ultimate truth, the source of everything .
When the creation of a simple robot itself demands for a great intellectual being behind, there must obviously be much superior intelligent being behind the creation of the greatest robot that we can ever see- the Human being.
Creation is an attribute, being artistic is an attribute, intelligence is an attribute, beauty is an attribute,- why do you say then the source of everything is of no attributes or of no qualities .
Are you saying that the ultimate source of everything ,
cannot have attributes,
or unable to have attributes
or don’t like to have attributes
or unwilling to have attributes ,
or has limitation to have attributes
or are you telling that it must not have attributes or it should not have attributes ??????????????
Just try to take up to chanting a minimum of 108 times of the
HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE
every day for few months regularly. You will realize for yourself the higher consciousness evolving within you and the realization of God. When your hunger is fulfilled nobody else needs to say, you will know for yourself.
It is the easiest and only successful method that takes to the destination of realization of God at the present degraded age of Kali and no other methods including even the Conventional Vedic methods/rituals will succeed at this point of time .
As mentioned in the Kalisantharna Upanishad Ithi shodashaka namnam kali kalmashu nashanam.
All the other methodes/jugglery of words may sound great for a while, but eventually they will leave you at almost the same point where you are without any firm understanding but simply hovering with unresolved doubts, where no realizations taken place but only mental concoctions.
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Rather than replying to your comment, I’ll just let your comment speak for itself. Cheers!
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Osho is bogus person with bogus philosophy.
OSHO: There Is No Creator.
OSHO: There Is No God, but I Have Found Something Far More Significant (Preview).
OSHO: My God! There Is No God!
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Animals don’t believe in God,.
Osho also doesn’t believe In God.
.
So osho = animal.
.
And people are considering this Animal as Genius/Enlightened/Great Etc etc etc.
.
No need to take knowledge/wisdom from an Animal.
.
His followers are even bigger fools
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Ok now I know the reaction, thank you.
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Ok if you are strongly believing something and want to defend it you use this kind of logic, according to the Vaishnavas Krishna or Vishnu is Supreme, but there are many puranas which state that Shiva is superior to Vishnu and that Vishnu is always looking for the grace of Shiva. The Acharyas of the Vaishnava tradition .dismiss this as tamasic puranas, but we do not know what is the basis for this. So I am sorry but I am not convinced by you, if you really need some one to accept your point you need to convince that person . I have not even found one single convincing argument from Iskcon. It just looks like Iskcon just goes on blabbering about it’s own beliefs, but not even one argument not even the argument from Prabhupada do I find convincing. Also when it comes to the Vedas the interpretation by the acharyas in the Vaishnava tradition itself is different, Madhva interprets “tatvamasi” as “attatvamasi” , Ramanuja interprets it as “Tasyaam tvam asi” since “tasya putra” and “tat putra” mean same. This is Ramanuja’s interpretation, so each one believes in their own tradition and interpret the Vedas accordingly stating that the Vedas confirm their philosophy. So through this kind of text torturing the Vedas are interpreted accordingly. Hence even taking the Vedas as authority we see that the authority is as per the interpretation of each tradition given to the Vedas. How will you justify that your tradition is the only true one and other traditions are false ? If you use one type of logic the people of the other traditions also use their own logic. Also most of the arguments by Iskcon are never original but always copy paste. So I would say is that even to understand the Vedas one must be without any biases, but the problem is that the tradition places those biases on the person.
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dear sriram, you read the entire vedas or meet any number of philosophers or spiritual masters. and meet me, i’ll have only the Bhagavad – gita & srimad bhagavatam with me. Which is more than sufficient to defeat anybody when it comes to answering any questions.
Here in this conversation, osho says I’m my own authority, which is completely rubbish, nobody can be his own authority in any way. bcos there r 4 defects. but when you accept the authority like Vedas there’s no question of having any incomplete knowledge, because the Vedas are originating from the mouth of Lord Vishnu.
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Ok so you have the problem with the word “authority”, then instead of authority let us change it to “basis”. So when Osho says he is his own authority perhaps he does not understand the meaning of the word authority as the way you do. Also he himself does not believe in any authority.
Also in reply to your comment “dear sriram, you read the entire vedas or meet any number of philosophers or spiritual masters. and meet me, i’ll have only the Bhagavad – gita & srimad bhagavatam with me. Which is more than sufficient to defeat anybody when it comes to answering any questions.” You and I can never have a discussion for the simple reason that there need to be common points of agreement when having a discussion. You want to immediately quote scriptures to say that this is the reason your point is justified. For me I require something to be more reasonable and rational to be convinced of any point. As I see reason as the universal basis for understanding truth. People can keep quoting different scriptures to justify their stand. But for me I require something more reasonable or rational. Otherwise I cannot accept such a point. You are a dogmatic person that is why you believe that the “Vedas have come from Vishnu’s mouth”. This is an absolutely dogmatic view.
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you are right. hare krishnas should read the book’ krishna the man and his philosophy by osho. by the way i read the book bagvadgita as it is by iskon. its worst book i have read in my life
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You are acquainted with the Truth I see. I have so many questions foe you since I am new with the actual Truth of things I can read and see for myself now. And how peculiar it is to me sometimes especial the “personality” phenomenon everywhere. I could use some direction through my attachments from my past. You can help me if you will. I will not question your authority. Facebook@Laura Kurilko Barker.
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You will find much here on this site. You might want to pick up one of Osho’s books. I suggest “The Mustard Seed” which is available from Amazon. I have also sent you a FB friend request. Be well.
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Seeking the truth of things is a worthwhile ‘pastime’ we may engage in in the course of our fleeting existence. One may be thin or obese, good looking or plain, accomplished or mediocre, but that has little bearing on our intent for a path.
Out of the many dangers one encounters when seeking the truth of things the most insidious one is, I believe, the routine tendency to deceive ourselves with beliefs, and consequently indulging in self-deception.
Self-deception is pleasant. It soothes and reassures us, gives us a sense of security, but also puts blinkers on out ability to discern. Sure, it may allow us to attain desirable social positions, be it in spheres of economics, politics, science, religion, art, education etc. – but that only (most likely) seals the end of our desire to know.
In this sense, the study of history – namely of
1. what people did (decided to do) – even e.g. our neighbours
2. for what reasons/why (we may need to uncover that ourselves because texts present different and often differing opinions)
3. with what consequences.
Then, and without ideological bias, let that speak to us regarding the fundamental essence of human condition. How do those historical happenings (things that happened) collaborate the inevitable fact and unknown (unknowable?) consequences of our fate as mortal beings? I repeat – this evaluation needs to be done ruthlessly, without ideological bias. That is, without authoritarian declarations of what is what.
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Osho is right , your Hare Krishna people know nothing, believe in superistion like chanting ‘hare Krishna’ will give them moksha.
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what do you know about hare krishna mantra first of all??? its better u ppl keep ur mouth shut or know something before you’re going to speak on a particular topic.
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Actually Iskcon does not believe that chanting hare krsna will give them moksha but rather the supreme lord will give them moksha. The mantra is simply calling out to their Lord. Anyone can believe anything they want but they cannot force it on others.
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the most idiotic spiritual comment i have ever seen, chanting at least 108 times Hare krishna:)) crazy, i would suggest you change that to Harry the Hare, maybe you’ll be transcended into the world of hare and rabbit :))
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I THINK THAT THEIR GOD MUST HAVE A SERIOUS HEARING ISSUES THATS WHY ALWAYS KEEPS ON CHANTING THE MANTRA 108 TIMES.
EVEN SOME BIRDS CAN CHANT THESE WORDS WHOLE DAY, AND GOD WILL GIVE THEN MOKSHA.
THIS TYPE OF GOD IS PARTIAL AND IF HE DECIDES TO WHOM WILL HE GIVE MOKSHA OR NIRVANA THIS MEANS THAT HE IS NOT A GOD HE IS PLAYER. THESE PRABHUPADA PEOPLE DON’T LIVE THEY ARE LIKE A SPEAKING RADIO.
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Keep your suggestions to your dumbo..
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HARE is missing at the end of chanting mantra
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you said the same as Osho..
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A realized man knows that the jugglery of words are for the ignorance who assume that they will find realization within the field of mind…reality is nondual and therefore no mind can be used to realize the emptyness of things, just knowing the facts of emptyness the mind eventually disolves and does not search for any more being but the termination of self….COMPLETE INNIHILATION.
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You are saying he has concepts LOL. He keeps saying go beyond concepts … Inconceivable as Chaitanya says… You have a sectarian conception and see others as having conceptions…you have concepts… Maybe take some ketimine or better and safer is playing with Hypnosis and dancing or running for hours on end as Chaitanya did… You maybe too old for such , I do not know… But I can guarantee you you have missed Osho and Chaitanya. But they’ll come around again and it is inside of you beyond scriptures hints , and philosophy… Even this is concepts in an attempt to remove concepts. Hari Krshna !
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Excellent comment. It balances out the self-contradictory nonsense of Osho’s obfuscatory latent but always active egoism. Osho tries to disguise it of course, but plenty of crackpot deluded semi-thinkers fall for it and fuel his visions of grandeur even after he died.
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Hari Bol 🙂 Hare Krishna 🙂
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Osho never said to accept his authority, he only teach us how to get to the point where we can find ourselves as the only authority, same way, He found Himself as the only authority. All conceptions that you believe are The Truth, are nothing else, but the barrier on your way to realise this Truth.
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I have come across an article On Osho Rajaneesh swamiji.
http://meditation-handbook.50webs.com/osho2.html
And few books such as
Bhagwan: The God That Failed, by Hugh Milne, Saint Martin’s Press.
Promise of Paradise: A Woman’s Intimate Life With ‘Bhagwan’ Osho Rajneesh.
I am not sure to what extent the information is authentic, but it sounds strange . Again it reminds me that Truth is neve simple, its indeed hard to know what goes in the back ground…
Thanks & Regards,
Pavan.K
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Osho reply is really awesome…beyond your thinking…any vedas of world fails to create a intellect..it only creating a hypocratic man..the man who only pretends things..after reading vedas , gita a man feels that ultimately he knows what truth is? And any one who challenge his knowing , he becomes frustrated and trying to defeat your words..a pure bullshit , he is only collecting information and pretend that he is knowing..that is vedas….it make man only idotic not intellectual…chanting hare krishna hare rama you feel that you are realizing to be….not going to feel god….
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Those who have seen the TRUTH can not express it in words, they can express it to an approximation only
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I totally agree to this because truth can be felt , experienced in the moment ( what osho said) but the moment it is said in words , it has different interpretations and it is erroneous. However if we need to know the truth from such person we need to resonate with the person who experienced truth and not just understand it.
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Simply I don’t understand why peoples are taking one side.
Today Human mind is so self made weak (consists of waste explosive conceptions about 1) life,2)love,3)god from various schools,philosophies) , .
He has made these three great state of being a topic of discuss.preach,debate etc..you can only live it,no more memorisation,preaching,concept is really needed) .
Humans himself/herself wants somone who can preach,teach,methodology these state of being.In true sense nothing is needed,if human is wise he/she can extract the huge energy which is invisible in the universe, and increase it’s consciousness level by being in these three states.It’s natural,but human wants here and now available technique.
The great teachers of east have experience things far beyond the body but whatever scriptures,teachings they said becomes a law.They all have actually failed by sayings because human have forget these state of being and busy in reading,chanting,dancings thereby adopting dogmatic behaviour( I have never met a single person belonging to any one spiritual lines encouraging & supporting other spiritual lines…never ever one can find because if that kind of person ever exist in the world,he does leave the clinged spiritual line…..and don’t say persons like this not existed ..existed but human mind interpreted him/her in a way by mind only)
Sometimes in life I saw common people so much conscious in these three states and actually they do not belong to any spiritual lines.
The question is not of reading,understanding,chanting,visualizing… Krishna,Shiva,Osho etc…infinite list…….Just being in these three states
1) life,2)love,3)god (different name of the same phenomenon)and don’t get attached to it.That’s the trick………….But really Human are in these states (happy,enlightened,playfull,joyous,ecstasy) ?
You all know the answer.Answer is never to be answered by other mind,scripture etc. other than the mind in which question arises.
Life is precious……Raise your Conciousness ……..choose any method .just be in that state of love …….don’t belong to any society,spiritual lines ,just learn and ask your own being not in state of love or fear which you always do..answer comes by itself.
Just we are lucky enough that a lot about consciousness work is done by our east mystics.Understand there work,practice,read it ..but get your answers from your being not because someone has said,written…
In a way all mystics are right & at the same time they are wrong.But it’s you who made them right or wrong…they have no credits ..they just being a sonof man in state of consciousness experience sth beyond, how to describe the unknown?
Individual Opinion & Experience
Neeraj Kumar Das
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I really love your reply, thank you very much.
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spot on. thanks 🙂 x
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this is the way i live too, thanks for the clarified interpretation
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all that you’ve described dear neeraj, give temporary satisfaction to our heart, in reality our heart is desiring & is desperate to a experience which is a ocean of unending bliss, eternity and knowledge. Which is possible by practicing bhakti – yoga. The process recommended of self realization for people in this age, I.e chanting the holy name of the Lord. makes the practitioner experience much more than anything what you have described above. when the person practice bhakti – yoga. It situates him on a spiritual platform where he experiences the highest level of bliss and Pure loving relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krishna. and after he quits this body, he goes back home back to Godhead never to come to this material world. and relishes An unending permanent bliss , which we are all desiring on a daily basis. Krishna promises this in bhagavad gita 4.9 & 9.34.
“how to describe the unknown?”
read bhagavad gita as it is.
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eh and what about about all childrens and women and young girls abused by ISSKON and I just went to Iskon temple in Kathmandhu nobody said even Hare Krishna just they were all asking for money ISSKON is not love is a brain washing machine just be good respect all that is love Isskon have no rspect I remember in switzerland temple if some bread was falling down on the floor devotees or so called would say let us give it to the karmis…oh what a love…. end if a brahmin is pure how he can become contaminated by a sudra indeed the sudra will become pure if he eat with a brahmin all nonsense religion is really the opium of people
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Thank you very much
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Osho is great enlightened master. Hare Krishna people very narrow minded, they do everything as given in Scriptures because their own consciousness / awareness is not working.
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thats rightly said i am also follower of lord krishna, and i do chanting out of love and never out of duty or fear or greed, osho is intellect in his own way, after all we are children of god, with this argument krishna and shiva must be laughing up there as to why these humans are fighting, many people fouth for ram mandir and masjid did, ram or allah come down to give respite to those families, of innocent people who lost life for nothing. lord krishna is equal to all, and shiva is param vaishnav, he is the greatest authority equal to vishnu, lord shiva love krishna so-much that he became a gopi to see him, thats the true love, lord krishna will give moksha to all of them so nothing to worry, krishna wants to enjoy with us he doesn’t want us to be his servant , rather he is our friend our well wisher, and prabhu pada was a great guru, there were people who are against him, he just said to chant the maha mantra, and in padma puran, gita mahatmay, and gopal shahastra namavali, lord shiva has said to parvati that he meditates on the lotus feet of lord krishna, ekal bhagwan krishna. we humans are making unnecessary mental problems, krishna said that there are two kind of worshipers , direct and indirect, so ultimatly who worships shiva, ganesh, durga, hanuman, kartikey, are indirectly worshiping krishna only, but we should come together and remove all this bloody superstitions, which is like a white ant destroying the mind and people are worshiping god out of fear and duty and not love, which is useless. hare krishna, om nam shivaey
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Going by Osho’s logic, all schools, colleges should be closed down. People should go by their minds, exploring knowledge.
Vedic knowledge has come down through Guru-Shishya parampara system. Its not a whimsical philosophy of a human being.
Mind is undoubtedly a powerful system. But we all can experience how monkey-like it is. It needs regulation. U let explore its limits and havoc awaits.!!
Finally for As Krishna,
In BG Krishna says-9.11 its said (We quote krishna, because if we allow our mind to search the absolute truth, it will land us in absolute chaos”.)
avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam param bhavam ajananto mama bhuta-mahesvaram!!
Translation-
Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be.
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amen!!!!!!!!
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Love beyond Love. 🙂
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I have found many book written by diciples of the “great” praphupada criticizing prabhuprada similar to rajneesh and the lost truth so judjing osho by some diciples writing is adsurd. and regarding the intimate part of osho life its again absurd finding prabhupada diciples not knowing the life of krishna on shrimad bhagwat purana in which he is basically a playboy………and i know most iskon argument is copy paste i recommend krishna mere dristi mein by osho which really describes what gita and you might not know osho is the only one who praises krishna than any other gurus.
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Osho is bogus person with bogus philosophy.
OSHO: There Is No Creator.
OSHO: There Is No God, but I Have Found Something Far More Significant (Preview).
OSHO: My God! There Is No God!
.
Animals don’t believe in God,.
Osho also doesn’t believe In God.
.
So osho = animal.
.
And people are considering this Animal as Genius/Enlightened/Great Etc etc etc.
.
No need to take knowledge/wisdom from an Animal.
.
His followers are even bigger fools
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Excuse me Mr Hare Krishna.. Whatever rot you want to speak you speak in some Iskon forum. This is a public forum. Many Osho disciples also visit this forum. I also am his disciple.
You watch what crap you are writing. Are you going to tolerate it if someone talks about your Guru and God brothers? Surely not..
You feel that Osho is an animal and his disciples are fools, keep your thoughts to yourself or you can cathart your crap in front of your god brothers.
First watch what all happens in your Iskcon.. No need to bark about Osho and my god brothers.. Get it?
Prabhupada flew into fury when Dev Anand made that movie Hare Krishna Hare Rama tarnishing Iskcon’s image..
Likewise I cannot tolerate that you write garbage.. What is your problem if we say that there is no god?
If you are not agreeable with us be happy with your teachings.
Stop your garbage writings like Osho=Animal and all..
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You see this is how Iskcon works. They never want to have a discussion with others they are just interested in saying what they have to say , they do not even bother to listen to what others have to say. Actually many americans have experienced this with Christian Evangelists so it is not new for them. But I believe it is new for us Indians.
Sometimes I also wonder and ask myself that do they not understand that in order for the person to accept what they say they need to convince that person. So this basic sense is not present within them. I have also never seen them answer any objections to their philosophy.
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if you are so desperate for iskcon people to answer your question, visit iskcon temple, we’re always ready. for better clarification, visit any iskcon centre nearby and meet a devotee there ask whatever you want and get the answers, rather than talking on a online forum. and simply unnecessarily spoiling iskcon name.
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Sorry Tejal it is not me who is desperate for Iskcon to answer my questions, it is the Iskcon followers who are desperate to spread their philosophy. Otherwise why should they infiltrate into forums ?
Besides I don’t take back my word Iskcon and it’s followers are fanatic.If you do not want people to complain against Iskcon then change the way you spread your message. The Idiotic Iskcon followers just infiltrate into forums and try to force their opinions on others. I do not see how this is justified.
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Exactly…I feel so relieved by reading your words. I was thinking i was the only person who thinks so..i went to iskon thinking it will give more insight to the estern philosophy which is far more rational than a aristocratic King like God theory of western religions….But in fact wht i found is a just opposite..in fact the word moksha itself they changed the meaning…..if moksha means to go and live under a king like god Krishna,it is exactly same as the chidish theory of western religions..all the rational things which even modern scientists believes(like einstein,shrodingeger) from hindu religions(hinu,buddist,jain etc) is utterly lost in the verssion of ISKON…i believe” bhagavd gita as it i s ” by prabhupada should be renamed as “bhagavad gita as not it is”…and their followers exactly speak like fundamentalist muslims…….every one utter the same words which was brainwashed to them
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Hi Rinu,
The problem is that Iskcon does not know how to teach it’s own philosophy. I would recommend you read “Being Different” by Rajiv Malhotra. He explains the clear difference between West and the East. He presents even Achintya Bhedabheda in a palatable and rational way. Iskcon has failed to do this. It is a beautiful philosophy.
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thats rightly said i am also follower of lord krishna, and i do chanting out of love and never out of duty or fear or greed, osho is intellect in his own way, after all we are children of god, with this argument krishna and shiva must be laughing up there as to why these humans are fighting, many people fouth for ram mandir and masjid did, ram or allah come down to give respite to those families, of innocent people who lost life for nothing. lord krishna is equal to all, and shiva is param vaishnav, he is the greatest authority equal to vishnu, lord shiva love krishna so-much that he became a gopi to see him, thats the true love, lord krishna will give moksha to all of them so nothing to worry, krishna wants to enjoy with us he doesn’t want us to be his servant , rather he is our friend our well wisher, and prabhu pada was a great guru, there were people who are against him, he just said to chant the maha mantra, and in padma puran, gita mahatmay, and gopal shahastra namavali, lord shiva has said to parvati that he meditates on the lotus feet of lord krishna, ekal bhagwan krishna. we humans are making unnecessary mental problems, krishna said that there are two kind of worshipers , direct and indirect, so ultimatly who worships shiva, ganesh, durga, hanuman, kartikey, are indirectly worshiping krishna only, but we should come together and remove all this bloody superstitions, which is like a white ant destroying the mind and people are worshiping god out of fear and duty and not love, which is useless. hare krishna, om nam shivaey , i love krishna i love shiva, i welcome new thoughts. stop fighting start loving and living
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neti neti
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ISKCON people have no brain, believe only in ‘hare Krishana’.Superstitious.Think as if this word is only authentic, others are False. In fact they have no business ,so use name of Krishna to make their blind beliefs authentic.
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” ISKCON people have no brain”
bisnu you seem to posses a very big brain! ! Could you bit prove it in some way.
.
” believe only in ‘hare
Krishana’.”
the Kalisantarana Upanisad clearly states that the process recommended for the Kali – yuga is chanting the holy name of the Lord, which ISKCON is very nicely is following. What is your problem with that???
.
” In fact they have no
business ,so use name of Krishna
to make their blind beliefs
authentic.”
the only business for people in all yugas is to engage in loving devotional service with the Lord as enunciated in many of the Vedic literatures. where is blind belief?? in fact you’re blindly talking nonsense here. You open your eyes first gets the fact right.
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exactly ,,,many of them only know this one upanishad which says harekrishna mantra,,,,they never bother to read what other upnishad says
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Yea! Incredible article…But practically speakin’ fellas, Word Jugglery doesn’t help its simply an illusion….
Chant Hare Krishna and be Happy
Ash
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No problem with nama Sankirtan, say Hare Krishna, say Hare Rama say Nama Shivaya or say Sri Matre namaha. This will help in purifying the chitta but itself is not the end. Keep on saying it develop more Sattwa and finally gain that which is one’s own nature. This is some thing very practical. Saying that some one will go to Vaikuntha or Goloka or Kailasha after death is something that is not verifiable and all that can be done here is mere speculation.
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where is the speculation? ?? Krishna promises in bhagavad gita 18 chapter, by engaging in devotional service throughout the life the person will come to Vaikuntha,
man-mana bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yaji mam namaskuru
mam evaisyasi satyam te
pratijane priyo ‘si me
Always think of Me and become My
devotee. Worship Me and offer your
homage unto Me. Thus you will come to
Me without fail. I promise you this
because you are My very dear friend.
Krishna is only promising, where is the speculation? ? now if a person doubts what Krishna is saying he’s certainly a fool no doubt about that. Such person will never get success in spiritual life, rather he’ll simply keep rotting in material world birth after birth.
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There is absolutely speculation here you idiot, even Jesus in the bible promises heaven, there is no way to verify it. How will you verify it to be true or false. You have to take it on faith. That you will go to Vaikuntha or Goloka has to be taken on faith. Thus you have faith in your scripture which says that you will go to Vaikuntha or Goloka. This is simply speculation nothing more you cannot verify it.
You being a Vaishnava will swear by it’s scriptures and say that Vishnu or Krishna is Supreme. Another being a Saiva will swear by his own scriptures and say Shiva is Supreme. Some one who is a Ganapatya will swear by the scriptures of his tradition and say Ganapati is Supreme. So every one can have faith in their own scripture and claim that they will go to such and such a loka post death. This is completely based on faith and hence cannot be verified. You are welcome to have your own faith no problem with that but you cannot force your opinions on others.
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Hey you guys!!! Hold On!! No One is totally wrong!! ISKON followers, If you will hear the Geeta Darshan by OSHO(Rajneesh Acharya) you will know that OSHO is not trying to tell anything this anti Krishna or Anti Geeta. This discourse will help you understanding Bhagvad Gita even More. Like wise I would also recommend the same for Anti-Iskons. It seems to me that you Anti-Iskons are propagation your agenda more that you are supporting OSHO’s teachings!! Read this one too
krishna : The Man and His Philosophy by OSHO . you can find it in oshoworld.com.. There is no point of argument.. Seriously!!! Period..
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OSHO – Poet’s Wisdom and Eternal Light of Nirvana
“Krishna is the sole great man in our whole history who reached the absolute height and depth of religion, and yet he is not at all serious and sad, not in tears. By and large, the chief characteristic of a religious person has been that he is somber, serious and sad-looking like one vanquished in the battle of life, like a renegade from life. In the long line of such sages it is Krishna alone who comes dancing, singing and laughing. Religions of the past were all life-denying and masochistic, extolling sorrow and suffering as great virtues. If you set aside Krishna’s vision of religion, then every religion of the past presented a sad and sorrowful face. A laughing religion, a religion that accepts life in its totality is yet to be born. And it is good that the old religions are dead, along with them, that the old God, the God of our old concepts is dead too.”
Anyone can verify.
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dear mr sunil
thanks for the right word, love of god can not be forced, the love the devotion has to come from within, before joing the hare krishna chanting i was a nastik, ate non-veg (not alcoholic or any other vice), but still krishna ji gave the power to chant 20 mala japa daily which i do it with pure love and not as duty bound, and we have to respect lord shiva and krishna together, osho said what he thought was right, infact he has brought out many flaws of our shastra, which is an eye opener, go to you tube listen to his lectures, we should love krishna ji, and iskon is there because of lord krishna ji and not that because of iskcon krishna ji came in to recognition, prabu pada only said whats mentioned in bhagwat gita and srimad bhagwatam. why waste time in nonsense argument, love and live, the truth will remain truth, nothing can change its, its a science which prabhu pada has said to us, we are all suffering in this material world, no matter how much we try to justify our self, we ca not escape the clutches of death.
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Hey Sunil thanks for your comment. I am not anti-Iskcon, I am just against people forcing their opinions on others that is all. Iskcon is welcome to preach it’s Achintya Bhedabheda vada. Everyone has a right to have an opinion. But the problem is that organisations like these are trying to force their views on others. Which cannot be tolerated. This is what I am against.
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The same story . I tried to discuss Osho at Iskcon Desire Tree.com .In the reply ,all the iskcon people were calling out bad names to osho , A lady started crying and weeping , she told me -“dare not enter my home ( i.e iskcon desire tree .com). They only recommended me books to read but no real and authentic counter argument . In the old fashion , they said it is written in this book or that but where is the original research work . At last , i myself closed the discussion. There exists a severe disconnect at ISKCON .From the very first go , they begin worshiping Krishna without providing and furnishing rationale . It is advised to ISKCON , without mentioning krishna , gitas and other text you just put your lectures . Such lectures will be more attractive and soothing because mentioning krishna only and calling other believes as redundant , in itself gives birth to a feeling of rebel against you ISKCON people .
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Brother, people like Osho are like MLM bosses, they tell their downlines, you are ur own boss, u are not earning for me. But actually every member is working for the top player. Likewise Osho says find ur own truth, explore ur world, but in turn he is binding them with his own mumbo jumbo.
Just like Krishnamurthy wrote so many books on the topic ‘dont read any books’.
Osho also taught meditation techniques to let away the desires, although it would have been great if he could find a technique to give away the desire of having a lot of Rolls Royce cars, nitrous oxide etc.
He was an outlaw, bashing people, abusing them, abusing their beliefs and he had a fun time doing it. I just glanced at the links below these comments on this webpage. They say Osho’s take on this , that ,whom, whoever. What is he , a judge? A lord? The Supreme intelligent person? He is questioning Jesus, and other enlightened persons. He calls himself enlightened? Enlightened people don’t give lengthy bashing answers if someome insults them. Someone asked ISKCON saint Sridhar Goswami about Osho and he just replied in two lines that he is a low class person. And an Osho disciple asked his take on the Saint, Osho has given a lengthy bashing reply because he was so hurt. Is this enlightenment?
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I really hate ISKCON, they are a bunch of religious fanatics… i was a hare krishna short time ago… I had terrible experiences… they dont have anything to do with Krishna, His love and light.
They attempt to kill you of hunger… you have to fast two times a month and eat only a few vegetables daily… dont have any sex, as they thing the body is impure, unholy, horrible.
(your genitals are as important as your legs, mouth and face, sex is as important as eat and sleep for good health and self love)
ISKCON´s popular jingle should be: the more you torture your body, the more spiritual you are (as Bhagwan said about all religions)
Krishna never said about torturing oneself and considerating one´s body as something dirty, impure… as iskcon has said.
Iskcon never talk about love to humanity.. they only talk about rules, regulations and bad things about other religions.
Try chanting hare krishna WITHOUT BEING A HARE KRISHNA
God is all-pervading, only be vegetarian and healthy… dont kill yourself. They forbid to pray to god and chant other mantras (hare krishna is only ONE name of thousands names of god)
Rajneesh movement its not PERFECT, but the attempt to make a non.sectarian conection with your inner self. Bhagwan was very open minded and he had a totaly different way to see things. His teachings are much more helpful and beautiful (and hilarious, as he said about life,haha)
He teach how to be Zorba the Buddha, dont a fool with a Little tail in the back of your shaved head (i dont judge or discriminate, I WAS a hare krishna myself, no offense)
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Dear Anonymous,
(They attempt to kill you of hunger…)friend… fast after 15 day’s is good for health you may confirm from any Nutritionist.
(dont have any sex, as they thing the body is impure, unholy, horrible.
(your genitals are as important as your legs, mouth and face, sex is as important as eat and sleep for good health and self love) FRIEND..Do they say NO SEX or No ILLICIT Relation.And I am amazed to know how important sex is for good health what I could see Illicit sex is invitation to HIV.Yes Body is impure;we pass stool,urinate,puss,foul smell etc. isn’t this true.
( the more you torture your body, the more spiritual you are)FRIEND…eat good & and dance on spiritual mantra tunes more spiritual you be as lord Chaitanya declared.
(They forbid to pray to god and chant other mantras (hare krishna is only ONE name of thousands names of god)Friend…It’s true Hare krishna is one of the thousand name of god but along this name assamble’s all the leela of lord on which basis Lord is addressed.As one chat this Name more & more & more &… sweet pastimes of lord are revealed.
(Rajneesh movement its not PERFECT)Friend you know better truly I don’t.
(He teach how to be Zorba the Buddha, dont a fool with a Little tail in the back of your shaved head )FRIEND..it’s better to look neat and clean .Even better then having a tail as dog or hog in next birth.
(i dont judge or discriminate, I WAS a hare krishna myself, no offense)FRIEND…No you where never bieng Hare Krishna means In Love not In LUST.
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dear anonymus
any body can chant hare Krishna mahamantra , without joining iskcon, or shaving head, one condition it should be with pure love, not as duty or fear, lord Krishna ji is always abused and misinterpreted , yes he is the real god , god of love, mercy, peace, friendship aliberation, and god of everyone, chanting is like when we talk to our friend its the same way we are talking to lord krishna, he is not a dictator, as he is been projected
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@Steve is what you say true ?
Then is such a thing is against Iskcon’s ideology.
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Dear Shriram tell me why should I lie what I wrote is absolutly true and ISSKON has been sued in many american Courts because of young girl, women and childrens abuse. I am not against anyone I just want the truth to come out and it is disgusting how ISSKON is setting this terrible facts apart I have beyou serach a bit in internet about iSSen living in India for 16 years married and indian women been to Vrindavan even I have takenb initiaion as a brahmin in Rudra Sampradaya but now I really keep my self far away from so called devotees you just search a bit in internet about waht I say and you will see I am sayng right
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@Steve OK I will grant you that. I really do not bother about them. I merely refute their conclusions. But I always get the feeling of talking to Christian evangelists when talking to them. Do you feel the same?
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how crazy are people is incredible what Osho? Osho ordered a chemical attack on american fields farmers didn t want to give him while he was in Oregon Osho claim himself Bahgwan it is incredible which level human stupidity can reach.
I am not feeling as talking to Christian evangelist Hare Krishna people are far better off some of them are really genuine they wake up early morning and believe in purity and service to God it is only the many that have deviated from the path that are not ok and I am sure that Swami Praphupada was a real genuine spiritual teacher he came to America with 40 rupees in his pocket like a genuine sadhu what happende later it has been done by americans and european people
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I am not supporting Osho or denying Iskcon. I am merely refuting their conclusions. Have no problem with them practicing their beliefs. But it is the way you present them.
1.I Always observe that they prefer to criticize Advaita before even introducing their own theory.
It is better they first present their own philosophy and then go ahead and criticism other philosophies. This is a mistake even made by Prabhupada himself.
2. It is better to support ones own position through logic and then go ahead and quote scriptures.
All I see is that they immediately go ahead and quote scriptures without first justifying their own position. So it is better they do that.
3.Lastly better talk more about the life of Chaitanya.
Also it is better they stop calling people rascals.
Iskcon must be cleaned of the above things.
Then it can be made more appealing to people.
They can also present their arguments in a much more neater way saying things like.
We do not agree with this philosophy because…… and so on.
It is better Iskcon and it’s followers work on better ways to present themselves.
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Dear Shriram whatever we will discuss here the world will go on on his wrong way and you are clever enough to know that only with philosophy we cant fullfill our stomach….,my way now is to try to live as rightly as possible as simple and sober and cheap as possible as a silent revolution against the system. To practice dharma means for me to be kind to all human beings and to be non violent and to respect everyone opinion and creed I am sorry if i use the term “stupid* i do not like to cricticise just sometimes I go slightly emotional I hope to find you sound and fit by the way gentleman where are you living in India`?
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Agreed. However it seems to be that people keep saying the same old thing an empty stomach cannot philosophise. How there aren’t statements like empty stomachs can’t dance or sing or date and so on. The objection is only against philosophy for some reason. The main argument given is that oh there is no productivity from it. What about singing and dancing what productivity does it serve. Or spending time with loved ones. The objection is mainly against philosophy. Seems more like a biased objection. Any ways sorry for digressing from the point. I live in hyd.
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Dear Shriram , I have read whole of your comments and the way you have represented your views………I will just say awesome!!!!…….but ….I have practised many paths …I was once with Vivekanand ..then with Iskon …then with Osho ..and many other …I have read philosophy …but none has given me solace …….may be I was not sincere ……….though I have tried to be in my capacity ………what to do ????……….i feel that either a person shall be very strong and courageous otherwise the life is so much traumatic that there come times when a person really need a personal God ….or a superior authority to whom one can pray ……..God is the hope of humanity ..without God a a common man will go insane …that is what i feel ..because after so much journey in this feild I am convinced that there is no personal God ….but I neither have courage nor I am so strong …..and I find myself in a very traumatic situation …..I many times feel that it would have been better that I would have been ignorant and worshipping
any God of my choice …….will you please enlighten me on my condition …
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1. Ok 1stly please do not present your issues on a public forum on this.
You should have asked for some contact while commenting .
2. What are you looking for solace or truth. Remember there is a difference between the two. Solace makes you feel comfortable where as truth is completely uncompromising.
Truth is not interested in creating solace within you.
Vivekananda was more interested in truth than comfort.How can he give you solace?
So 1st ask yourself do you want the truth or do you just want solace please be honest with yourself first.
It is only then you will get a clarification in your position.
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I plead sorry for raising personal issue on this public forum. well….when you have responded just one more response from my side ..What is Truth?? It is a matter of very much speculation ..Osho says Truth can not be conceived in this very article …One has to live the Truth that is what Osho says…and for that He prescribes meditation etc….as per my experience meditation gives a kind of euphoria mixed with awake fullness but that does not help in facing life’s challenges …..one may well say that life’s problems are just an illusion …..it seems to me a kind of insult to person in grief…..at this place comes the need of a Personal God on whom a person in grief can pray . for a common man personal God is a necessity .Every person can not reach to the consciousness of these great spiritual leaders…..for those people I say with my experience that God is required…Reading Osho has been a delight for me …but his reading and other readings have made me known that there is no Personal God ……and I am not realized to that consciousness which Osho says ..being in that state ….I have no grounds to hold on ….and this is really very painful state …may be in this very painful state I may realize some day …I requested you to enlighten me on this state of person..
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First of all if you were trying to know what truth is the question of “what is truth”. Would have been already determined by you before starting your journey. This is how I started my journey, I first of all determined what truth is . Then I saw a mere intellectual grasp of it was not enough. From your answer it clearly shows that you are not interested in truth. In that case why dont you just stick to the personal God. That is why I asked you what do you want ?
Saying that “I have not reached that consciousness ” clearly shows you were never even bothered with truth.
Any definition I give to truth is only a guide for a seeker to realise it. But in itself the definition cannot capture truth. It is clear that you are looking for solace nothing more. In that case why dont you stick to your personal god and forget about what you have read.
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Welcome Answer ..Thanx your replies have made me to realise the contradiction of my own mind ..and now i have to resolve this contradiction..
Thanx again..
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hare krishna hare rama
material people no make drama
conscious with company krishna
hare krishna hare rama
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how can you compare Osho and Isskon it is out of my understanding
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give break guys…. iskon or others even other many religious … they follow some method be hare krishna or lord jesus or whatever. If you read osho books u will get that this also a form of meditaion it will help u to break the mess of ur mind which keep going through. But its just a method. Its not complete knowledeg. Its like pond instead of ocean. What osho says is very deep u need to go through, dive into it..mugging will not help.
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Reality is in the contradiction.
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its all funny to read every one ask question to them self for what reasion this struggle take?????and then decide what is right
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Hare Krishna to everyone,
“I’m the absolute truth”
– Bhagvaan Krishna in Gita
Everyone this is my personal experience.. By chanting this maha mantra, you can seriously be relieved so much.. and I have so many instances where I have felt Krishna ji with me during my cruel times. For eg, I used to be the very pessimistic and always searching for happiness. I started to meditate, silent and all inward feelings kinda thing.. didn’t work, no offense. I started mantra meditation and this hare krishna mantra have really changed my life. Completely changed my outlook.. This is my experience.
Now stating the scriptures,
In srimat bhagvadam, during krishna and udhava conversation, krishnaji talks about bhakti yoga and the process of Sankirtan, please read that. Udhava, Bali, Prahlada, Dhruva, Hanuman, Arjuna, Prithu and many, have had the taste of krishna’s bhakti nectar. Now, if you do not believe, you should rather also not believe that the famous painting “Mona Lisa” was made by Leonardo da vinci or The gravirational theory wasn’t thought by Newton, since you hadn’t seen that.
Shiva ji and Vishnu ji, there is no difference. Both worship each other, through shiva you can also come to his loka and through vishnu ji you can come to his loka. There is one superior energy above them all, who is Krishna or Narayana or Rama or Hari. If you want confirmation, please refer to Ram charitramanas, where Svambhava manu ji and his wufe did tapas for narayana bhagawan.
Narayana means the last and final abode of everyone.
You can also try to research a bit by yourself. Some astonishing after death experience, where people saw demons coming out from windows.. or maybe some positive ones like, where krishna helps his devotees.
Sorry if anything offends you. I’m also not a follower of Iskon since I prefer to live a very simple life with only krishna bhakti. Iskcon is doing really great to transform people but most of them have become corrupted, sadly.
Regards
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Bro if all ppl of ISCKON were like you there would have been no problem.
All what i dont like about isckon is that they force their will on others
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I listened to all of you people….. It seems that no body is interested in Truth but all of you are interested in winning…. Hahaha…. Osho and Bhuddha and Krishna all were saying the same thing and all vedas, all the available scriptures say the same thing… But you need “Silence” to understand…. As I will repeat as osho said it “you” and “I” are both ego of mind… Words are ego of mind and the moment you drop the mind…. Absolute truth is achieved….
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OSHO: There Is No Creator
OSHO: There Is No God, but I Have Found Something Far More Significant (Preview)
OSHO: My God! There Is No God!
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osho hell
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OK so what is your exact problem please explain.
How has this particular dialogue actually pissed you off ? I see Iskconites continuously commenting on this article please tell me what is the issue here ?
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i have listened many discourses of osho and it was mind blowing. When i come to know HARE KRSNA and Srila Prabhupada i have listened to srila prabhupada which was very powerful really: among which the line “HUMAN LIFE IS NOT MEANT FOR JUST EATING AND PASSING STOOL, IT IS THE BUSINESS OF DOGS AND HOGS TO SATISFY ONESELF BY SENSE GRATIFICATION ” made me think about myself. Osho has talked about many more mystics, sadhu, baba which amazed me and the most amazing thing is that he have never talked about Srila Prabhupada though he was from India and most known Guru at that time world wide. Man like Osho must have heard and read about Srila Prabhupada because he has thousands of followers and devotees of KRSNA world wide and it was a very renounced movement THE HAER KRSNA MOVEMENT.
i have searched in many discourses and YouTube about osho on srilaprabhupada. srila prabhupada born 1896 died 1977, osho born 1931 died 1995(not sure but around). so it is not convenient that Prabhupada have talked about osho because when osho become popular Srila Prabhupada has passed away but osho such a great scholar of philosophy he must have talked about srila prabhupada.
if anybody have got any related talk baout osho over Srila praphupada (Srila Prabhupada not to his followers) please please shear……. i will be thankful to you..!!!
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I cant understand how you can compare Osho and Swami Praphupada who came to Americavwith 40 indian rupees in his pocket. I see the answer to a post in unpolite language from Osho follower people preaching wealth and sensual enjoyement Frankly I did never like Osho even if he ssys many true thinks but than in real life he was not better what i am my own authority if he knows thinks he can thanks Lord Krishna being that he was born in a brahmin family himself
I live in Nepal after many yearsof India and all Osho followers I met were very selfish folk please stop this nonsensical arguments who leads nowhere. Why a spiritual man must have many RollRoyce and much wealth and and plenty girls around him?
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Wow your comparison for spirituality is some one who leaves wealth wow great comparison dude, you say many followers of Osho are selfish are the Hare Krishnas any better ? They just act like immature teenagers, infact it is the Iskconites who actually started commenting on this thread. If Iskconites are truly spiritual then why should they even bother coming and commenting here , I will tell you the reason. The reason is that it will make the Iskconites themselves lose faith in their own doctrine nothing more. This hatred for Osho is due to the simple reason that Iskconites are absolutely uncomfortable with Osho’s statements tell me one thing here is Osho saying Iskcon is bad or useless ? He has merely expressed his own experience here and says clearly that merely memorising something is not to actually know it. If you disagree with it fine then just express your disagreements and leave. Instead what do the Iskconites do, they come and spew venom. Shame on you guys, you are supposed to inculcate Sattwa and leave Raga and Dwesha ( likes and dislikes) but Iskconites have too much Rajas and absolutely no Sattwa. So what is the point of joining Iskcon when it can’t inculcate Sattwa Guna into it’s followers ? Iskcon followers consists of people who have no control over their emotions and use manipulative ways to actually preach. Why would anyone even be attracted to what you guys say if all you act in this ? Sorry to say this but I really doubt there is any Sattwa in any of the Iskconites.
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Dear friend, written word’s of can’t be forgotten or be taken over, specially if it’s from scripture. We don’t comment on satisfy our ego defense mechanism, we comment here to make people aware of something which osho didn’t taught. Indeed he was a great person as philosopher but can’t be accepted as spiritual seeker, he himself had contradicted every religion.
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That is an absolute lie, Iskconites who come and comment over here have absolutely no control over their own emotions all I see is they actually just copy pasting verses continuously here . Why even come and comment here it is simply to attract people to their way of thinking so how to do this they will claim that they want to preach the scripture here. They will tell what they want and then hide behind scripture and if any alternative version or interpretation is given they will immediately call that person Paabandi and Mayavadi or they will say that this person has no Sampradaya please I know how Iskcon followers talk been there done that.
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If you would like to be rid of your confusions use your scriptures to wipe your arrses. The ignorance of being will never leave you alone unless you disappear from existence. Trash your minds any way you can and hold a stick close by that when mind arises, just beat it up until it remains calm. The only way to liberation is how to extinguish oneself and be done with all discoveries…just finish – extinction! no self, no soul, no spirit, no mind…and just leave god the fu*k alone. Don’t bear this burden of knowing and confusion, nothing is certain, all is assumption. Life has no basis no center no protection…and therefore nothing to be saved. The first and last freedom – EXTINCTION… ((((((0))))))
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you talk like a cave man very rouglhy no kindness no love get extinct man
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Stefano, my kind fellow, what would you do if the entire world disappears and you’r left all alone? To whom are you going to listen to? What about being ugly and ignored by family, friends and other beautiful people? You must learn how to follow on your own path alone. Kindness love and relationships is waist of time and you haven’t got too much time while living. Now why do you want to be a follower and remain in the grips of a circle of group? Misfortunes and death can strike at any time but your attachments wont free your mind. Alone in the wilderness you become detached from love and kindness and your main goal will be how to liberate yourself from family and worldly conditions. Contemplating on death daily liberates mind from attachments and once you’r detached and liberated how can you relate to this world? Once you have transcended and gone beyond how can you relate to sensuality and ignorance? Here is where I abide, in the inner dome of emptiness, and on countdown for the grand take off… Liberation through Extinction. (((((0)))))
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What a peculiar feeling to be pulled one way or the other to take sides! And it keeps happening again and again – politics, opinions …
I believe there is a value in chanting the Hare Krishna mantra though I don’t think it is in what is attributed to it by its most visible proponents. This is my understanding:
There may be an effect created by the phonetics, that is to say, the sounds and their combination. But I think that is not as critical to its effects as the repetition that goes on for (an) extended period(s) of time. What this does, very much like other rhythmic, repetitive and putatively ‘meaningless’ vocalisations, is to flood the brain with input that ultimately proves to be beyond the brain’s interpretation capacity. The mantra’s magic effect is that it makes the usual processes of cogitation come to a pause. With more practice the pause can become a stop to all conceptualisation. And vola – we are free of the tedium of compulsive thinking about everything and become silent, yet our senses are still functional and allow us to carry on as though nothing has happened to us! If that happens the mantra has taken us to the realm of fully conscious state of internal silence.
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Osho’s followers thinks that Osho is the only enlightened being in the whole world. They can think that. It’s their choice. But why expecting that everyone will become his disciples and especially Why Iskconities will have any respect for Osho? Osho said that Sai Baba of Sirdi was an enlightened being but the teachings of Sai Baba is very much like that of a bhakti yogi. Similarly, Swami Ramkrsna said Krsna to be God Himself. He said that Krsna was not some enlightened being but the source of all enlightened beings, the cause of all causes. One can read Ramkrsna Kathamrita for clarification. The fact is Spritual atheists like Osho believes in too much accidents. Accidentally creation happened. Accidentally Humans got enlightened. All this is because of some nuclear blasts or whatever. But people like Srila Prabhupada is intelligent enough to accept such a easy fact that the Universe has a cause, everything has a cause. If there is a Universal Law then there must be some one who is enforcing it to us.
Osho’s followers are very ignorant of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Followers of Iskon should not comment on this forum. Since, it will be a disgrace to Srila Prabhupada. Instead, We may pray for these fallen souls.
Sri Radhe!
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Dear Friends,
Please stop the Squabbling.My Mom(Religion/Scripture)is right and your Mom(Religion/Scripture)is wrong that is Baby talk… Love is the Essence of All religions.There are Many doors and Paths.There are many Wonderful Scriptures including the Gita as it is(Don’t take every word literally).Iskon does lean a little toward close mindedness,Fundamentalist,but also,the essence of it is Very Essential/Pure.Chanting in this day and age Hare Krishna or Om Mani PADME HUM and others are all Beneficial towards opening the Heart and creating a Peaceful mind.There is No One way.I go chant with the Krishna’s and I go sit with Tibetan Buddhist Monks,I get hugs from Ammachi.I read Osho discourses,sing in the Gospel choir and truthfully I know my Soul benefits from it all and extracts the essence of All.My sole motivation is to liberate myself from the suffering of this world and to liberate others.To live in the Pure essence of Love(Bhakti Prem).We just need to open our hearts and have acceptance,tolerance for others in their beliefs.Unconditional Love is Supreme.
May the Pure Love of God come into the Hearts of All!!!
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Hello Ramji,
Your’s being the latest comment, I thought I’d just tag onto what your saying.
Well I think this whole debate will fail if a neither party is willing to come to an unbiased position. Just like in science we are taught for a hypothesis to be tested, the experiment must be done without bias. Then if the results match the hypothesis then it’s considered to be equivocally true.
So hoping that has been done, I’m not repeating anything that I don’t think has been said before but would like to pose a question in regards to this “everyone is their own authority”…
If a rapist or pedophile is his own authority and acts the way he does according to his conception of love … then according to this idea of “everyone is their own authority” … you Ramji are accepting rapist?
Warmest Regards,
Tanil
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These are typical pathetic ways believers like you have to come down to , did the Iskconite asked on “what Authority you say this” and what is that about knowing the nameless and so on. Suppose I want to know if the something is salty or sweet do I need the Shastra to tell me or I need my tongue to taste , I need my tongue to taste it. The reason why you comment like this is because your head is full of filth and nonsense. So your chanting of Hare Krishna and following Iskcon is an absolute failure. This gives me more reason never to follow Iskcon since what Iskcon contains is filthy minds like yours.
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when he says that you are your own authority, why does he come to teach?
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That is the difference between a master and a teacher. A teacher teaches information, knowledge but a master awakens your own authority. Osho is a master.
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Also when he says “I am my own authority” what he means is that he has experienced it himself 1st hand. When he says that you are your own authority he means to say “you have to know it for yourself” Just as a scientist does not take anything on face value , he has to know it 1st hand . Even so he is asking his followers to not take anything he says at face value but to know it for themselves he is simply acting as a doorway .
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WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!! neither by love nor by hate will the truth ever erase sensuality and ignorance, but by undersanding that the assumed self is a scum that hasn’t the slightest truth in it… for the truth remains beyond mind, and therefore beyond evolution… the self is consistent of time and allways becoming. The truth remains and stands still….
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